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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"><FONT size=2>Members of the Montgomery Area Linux Users Group interested in this thread <[malu] Programming for Kids?> , and Jason in particuar,</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS"> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p><FONT face="trebuchet ms"></FONT></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"><FONT size=2>Seven years old!<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Wow.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What a position to put in the ten thousand hours of practice before twenty that Malcom Gladwell asserts is necessary to get to a Bill Gates or Beatles level of mastery .<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(Gladwell oversimplifies but he has a point.) </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNoSpacing><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS">Although being up to speed at seven on the tasks mentioned is a wonderful start, the lack of reading ability is, of course, currently limiting. Seven in this world is a good place to be. </FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNoSpacing><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS">I will copy this email to Dr Enoch Lee, who is Head of the Department of Mathematics here at Auburn University Montgomery.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Enoch has a high level of knowledge of computing, including Linux, and has worked with his children on programming.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I forget what language he was using but perhaps it was Scratch.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Maybe it was Squeak, which is perhaps what is running Scratch.</FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNoSpacing><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS">If you haven't come across Scratch then please go to <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">http://scratch.mit.edu/</I> and be sure to look at the "jigsaw" format of a program segment in order to see how some difficulties of syntax are neatly circumvented.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I see that the latest Scratch package for Ubuntu is available from Scratch's home page but it is currently only for a 32 bit version but with some users reporting good results from forcing it onto 64 bit systems.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I glanced at<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"> http://scratch.mit.edu/forums/viewtopic.php?id=56623</I> to see about the OpenSUSE OS but my reading level of many posts is such that I have to hunt around and I neither understood my first reading nor hunted.</FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><BR>T</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">he Berkley Logo (UCB Logo) which Matt found is indeed excellent for serious purposes but the manual warns</SPAN></FONT><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> "</SPAN><FONT size=2>Features *not* found in Berkeley Logo include robotics, music, GUIs, animation, parallelism, and multimedia.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>For those, buy a commercial version."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">I have the three volume set <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Computer Science Logo Style</I> by Brian Harvey, who uses Berkley Logo and it is a joy to read but it does call for serious reading.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We often rise to the task, in this case reading, when the goal, in this case programming, is highly desirable but I'd recommend a different starting place.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>One of the projects in <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Computer Science Logo Style</I> is to build a Pascal compiler.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'"><o:p><FONT size=2></FONT></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'"><FONT size=2>It certainly is motivational to be able experience and have your friends experience the animation and music.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The near immediate graphics reward is one of the things that makes Logo so appealing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The Logo talk which Matt mentions uses a LCSI Logo called MicroWorlds and I'm really torn about whether or not it would be a good choice.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>MicroWorlds is great for kids that don't know that they'll love computers and it has worked well in the past but programming does not seem an activity of choice for the masses and kids exposed to MicroWorlds sometimes get seduced into producing animations with music which are quite impressive but do not lead to serious programming -- some programming, yes, but often dead end.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Why produce a hello-world program or compute Fibonacci numbers when you can so easily produce a movie?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>For whatever it is worth, the LCSI site is <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">http://www.microworlds.com/</I> and they offer a MicroWorlds Jr for Pre-K through Grade Four.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There are two additional expenses -- financial and it only runs on Windows and Macintosh.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The MicroWorlds support is good, as it should be for the expense, but I've used the Windows version and Microsoft has yanked the run from under me on MicroWorlds at least once and perhaps twice.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Members of the Linux Users Group don't need to hear my rants about Microsoft so I'll say no more about this.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></PRE><PRE><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'"><o:p><FONT size=2></FONT></o:p></SPAN></PRE><PRE><FONT size=2><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">If you go to Brian Harvey's Webpage,</SPAN> <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/</SPAN></I><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Trebuchet MS','sans-serif'">, <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>you will see some an example of an extended version of Scratch called Build Your Own Blocks (BYOB) from MIT using drag and drop.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>He mentions that he is currently working on it to support an undergraduate-level introductory computer science course using BOYB so please don't be put off by drag and drop.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNoSpacing><FONT size=2><FONT face="Trebuchet MS">I have a wonderful paperback by Warren and Carter Sande titled <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Hello World!<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Computer Programming for Kids and Other Beginners</I>.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is a fine introduction using Python.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don't know how old Carter was when he helped his dad Warren with the book but he wanted to understand everything;<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>twelve years old is mentioned at some point.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The book is solid and I recommend it to anyone who finds that they are able to read it.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNoSpacing><FONT size=2><FONT face="Trebuchet MS">The publisher, Manning, has a neat deal on its publications.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>When you buy the hardcopy of the book you get, as part of the deal, a link to download some electronic versions -- I forget the options but I've downloaded pdf versions of the books I've gotten from Manning and I think there are Kindle and epub versions.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is great to keep the hardcopy at home but the ability to looks something up quickly on a file on my office computer.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNoSpacing><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS">If you would like to offer your son the option of seeing if he can rise to read<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Hello World! </I><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>then the <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">http://www.manning.com/sande/</I> Webpage has some links to sample chapters (and links for installations for Fedora, Ubuntu, and some other OS's).<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You might take a look first.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We all share -- I certainly do -- that having too many choices sometimes freezes action.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If Scratch looks good and <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Hello World! </I>seems a bit much then I wouldn't mention <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Hello World! </I>until he is in love with Scratch.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>At seven there's plenty of time.</FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNoSpacing><FONT size=2><FONT face="Trebuchet MS">It is off the subject but Manning Publications has another feature of interest.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You can buy a MEAP publication (Manning Early Access Program) which gives you access to a book as it is being written.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You receive the current chapters and, as time goes on, the revised chapters.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>When the book is finally published, you receive the hardcopy as well as the electronic versions mentioned above -- essentially the finished versions of what you have been receiving.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>A minor advantage is that you get to read the book earlier.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>A great advantage for both the reader and the author is that if you come across a part that you don't understand you can write the author about it and perhaps both get your question answered and improve the book.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>So even if you, as the father, don't think your son is ready for <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Hello World!, </I>then if you aren't familiar with Manning publications, you might want to take a look at<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"> http://www.manning.com/.</I></FONT></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><o:p><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS"> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><FONT size=2><FONT face="Trebuchet MS">Yet another option would be JavaScript.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I'm really out of touch with modern programming but as I understand it most of the apps right now are using JavaScript.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The Codeademy (<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">http://www.codecademy.com/#!/exercises/0</I>) seems to offer an addictive introduction.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I say additive since it uses positive feedback (you keep getting the right answers) and the feedback is quick.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If you don't know Codeacademy then it is worth a look just to experience the "I'll try just one more thing and then I've got to quit and get to work."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>We should always be aware of that freezing when there are too many choices.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You might wait until your son says something about wanting to put a cell phone in a drone to fly around the neighborhood but, if such a day comes, perhaps JavaScript will work better than Scratch or Python.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Then again, perhaps not. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>At the risk of repeating myself, at seven there's lots of time.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><FONT size=2><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>--furman <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><o:p><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: windowtext; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS">On 29-Jun-2012 at 9:41 am Matt Ragland (Interim Associate Provost of Research and Graduate Studies at Auburn University Montgomery; mragland@aum.edu;</FONT><A href="http://sciences.aum.edu/~mragland" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS">http://sciences.aum.edu/~mragland</FONT></SPAN></A><FONT size=2 face="Trebuchet MS">)<BR></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT size=2><FONT face="Trebuchet MS">wrote the following with a copy to the Montgomery Area Linux Users (malu@lists.malu.org):<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Jason,<BR><BR>At AUM we have an annual math event where local kids are invited to learn math and math related topics. Dr. Furman Smith always gives a talk on "How to program your own video game.". He uses the language LOGO, though of I recall, he uses a proprietary version. But, I'm pretty sure you can find a Linux version. Here is a link that might help:<BR><BR><A href="http://linuxgazette.net/issue43/silva.logo.html" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://linuxgazette.net/issue43/silva.logo.html</SPAN></A><BR><BR>I'm copying Dr. Smith on this. He might have more to share. I believe he is credited with writing the first fantasy video game for children some time ago.<BR><BR>Good luck with teaching your kid programming!<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Matt<BR>...<BR><BR>On Jun 29, 2012, at 9:23 AM, "Jason Wohlford" <jason@wohlford.org> wrote:<BR><BR>> So I've got a 7yr old who wants to make his own game. Apparently, him and a friend are making Mario World 4. He's got a bit of Linux skill. He's installed OpenSUSE and Linux Mint a couple of times by himself. Very proud of that! He knows Mac and Windows too. Now reading ability is still lacking. He's 7. He's making great progress there, but full on programming (i.e. Python, etc) would be too much. I cut my teeth on HyperCard when I was a boy. I'm hoping there is something like that for Linux. Any suggestions?<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> Jason<BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>> Jason Wohlford<BR>> <jason@wohlford.org><BR>> <<A href="http://wohlford.org/" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://wohlford.org/</SPAN></A>><BR>> @wohlford<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> malu mailing list<BR>> malu@lists.malu.org<BR>> <A href="http://lists.malu.org/listinfo/malu" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://lists.malu.org/listinfo/malu</SPAN></A><BR>> <A href="http://malu.org/" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">http://malu.org/</SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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